Thread: *Possible placement question - need your advice

<p>Yoo.. so I have a possible placement with Sadat x and AG for a song they're doing... the label is offering a few hundred upfront for the song - all in. so i would get no mechanicals and no publishing at all. I was kinda hoping for some of the writers share, which I think would be fair, especially since the song has no samples ..but they are not offering that.</p>
<p>What do you guys think? is&nbsp;it worth it for the credit only?</p>
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<p>ok i'll tell you in my opinion, that i would take the bread upfront and not worry about the "big" money or catching royalties from the artist on your first deal with them.. cant say it's impossible, i've just never seen it happen at such a low level music deal. but then you got the greedy producers (please no1 get offended ths is strictly my opinion) who want royalties an 2 g's upfront like half the profit in royalties and they wont sell the record unless they get that much, im not like that.. whether its sampled or not, it dont matter to me.. i've sold beats i had labeled for $200 for $50 cause the artist told me he's low on budget and wants to rap on my beat soooo badly.. that made me feel a lot better than $200 would make me feel. i give OD free DL's and i love ppl hitting me up on my email or myspace telling me yo check this track out that&nbsp; idid over your beat, or yo i murked that beat you got on soundclick check it out, and then i'll get those messages sayin "yo i love your shit gimme exclsuive rights to this beat that beat the other one too, im payin for all of it" so u get good custies, and sometimes not so rich custies, a customer cant be a BAD customer if he pays you and respects you.. but love and respect should be more important to a producer than money and greed. think about it.. i would let them get the beat for the couple bucks without even thinkin about it..</p>

<p>Hello, I think the price should be based on Your estimation of how much the song will make. Since these are two guys who are past their prime saleswise it wont make that much . if it was kanye or fif I wou;ld charge more cuz they got a budget and the record will get promoted and make someone a lot of $$$$ why not you.&nbsp;&nbsp; that said, You should get publishing for a sample free joint. that part is a little suspect.....&nbsp; I say if you make sample free joints go easy on the cash and get the credit and publishing. For someone to offer low cash and no backend....unless it is a mixtape.</p>

<p>There's no point in getting a writer's share if the sales are not even decent. You won't see much if nothing is moving</p>
<p>Ask yourself honestly, is this project really going to take off?</p>
<p>I say take what they offer and stack up on the discogs.</p>

<p>You do not want to give up all of your publishing at least get a portion. This is not being petty I'm pretty sure you can negotiate a decent deal but you never ever want to give up all of your publishing you never know what that song might do.</p>

<p>I agree with Fliznoyd .</p>
<p>I say take the upfront money and the credit but that's because I've always liked AG and Sadat X.&nbsp; I would feel bad if I turned down a placement then never sold that track.&nbsp; I feel that if they respected you they would offer you your writer's share (for sample-free), at the very least.&nbsp; So it's gotta be about the love on this one.&nbsp; It's kinda like that saying, "Don't hate the player,Hate the game".&nbsp; Definitely get your credits!</p>
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<p>I think I got to ride with Drape and Mr. KS on this....and Flizznoid....get the credit and build the resume and also hopefully a relationship....if it is tight enough, it will bring you additional work...so see it as an investment...BUT cover you tail for the next time they come around...lawyer up and make sure the "i"'s are dotted and the "t"'s are crossed.....</p>

<p>i dont know...i dont wanna be such a rebel and disagree wit everyone on this point, but na money aint as important to me in this game as, well, basicaly the REST OF IT ALL!! the LOVE RESPECT PRIDE. not even respect from just others, i'd respect myself a lot more knowing i'm not the next soulja boy who is in it for the bread and make a one time kinda deal and go enjoy my millions made in 10 minutes... so yea money's always good, cant hide that. and im always down to go get that money, but if someone aint even gonna make that much money off my beat, i'm not gonna hold the beat away from them unless i get&nbsp; paid u feel me?? and if they are gonna make the money like flizznoid said, i STILL wont give a shit.. they DO got a budget, and they DO got lots of money to throw away, BUT in addition to all that, IMO no1 like kanye or 50 is gonna offer me a couple hundred dollars for a beat they plan on making millions off, or maybe i'm wrong.. maybe they're jews themselves (no offense to any jews)&nbsp;and they're looking to make millions off guys who havent tasted that cake yet?? maybe they wanna "ripo me off" "fuck me over".. SON... im gonna say this in the most honest, straight forward way possible....I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK. if someone THAT big and THAT famous comes and "steals" royalties or just cops a beat maaad cheap off me, then i would feel like shit i mean SHIT if i went to sue the cat, or bitched aobut it, or ended up not selling the beat because of SELFISH GREED.. I WANNA SAY THIS HONESTLY IN MY OPINION...LEMME ASK SOMETHING TO ALL OF YOU PRODUCERS WHO HAVENT MADE IT YET.. (IF YOU HAV THEN THIS ISNT DIRECTED TOWARDS YOU AT ALL)&nbsp; WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU??? I HAVENT HEARD OF YOU.. I DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE, AND I DONT GIVE A MOTHERFUCK WHO YOU ARE.. I JUST HEARD ONE OF YOUR BEATS.. ITS AIGHT. I WANT IT. IMMA MAKE 20 GS OFF OF IT. BUT IMMA GIVE YOU $500 AND NO ROYALTIES.. YOU WANT IT OR NOT?? NOT?? NO MOTHERFUCKIN PROBLEM.. I'LL GO GET ONE OFF SOMEBODY ELSE.. (END QUOTE LOLZ)</p>
<p>NOW WHY YO DEADASS WHY SHOULD THAT FAMOUS NIGGA WHO SHITS ON THE TABLES WE CLEAN (NOT LITERALLY) PAY US MORE THAN HE WANTS TO?? WHO AM I, OR WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE THE PRICE. WHEN HE'S THE NIGGA PUTTING YOU ON SUCH A HIGHER LEVEL??</p>
<p>DAMN.. I WROTE TOO MUCH.. THIS IS ENOUGH FOR NOW, NO1'S EVEN ONLINE EXCEPT FOR ME AND JAAY PESO AT THIS EXACT MOMENT, SO YA'LL AINT GONNA READ IT ANYWAY.. I'LL CHECK THIS OUT LATER AND SEE WHAT YA'LL GOTTA SAY ABOUT MY SO CALLED "STUPID" OPINION&nbsp;CALLED BY MOST OF MY FRIENDS WHO TRY TO ENCOURAGE ME TO BE GREEDY. NEVER WORKED NEVER WILL.</p>
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<p>Drape going hard LOL ALL CAPS BABY, ALL CAPS! LMAO</p>
<p>Nahh but....</p>
<p>I think the tricK and trades of a smart businessman in this industry is to assess the future of that particular record.</p>
<p>Who's the artist? Does he/she have mass appeal? Where are they at this point in time of their career? How much will the album sell? What's their budget? What's my budget? How much work did I invest into the final product?</p>
<p>If a 50 were to approach me with regards to a particular beat, I'd defintiely be most humbled and honored. He'd probably pay you a pretty penny upfront at a&nbsp; flat rate then fuck you over Diddy status through your shares. But realize, he's paying you in extra dividends. What I mean by that is - he's paying you that much more through the credits and future business partners and artists.</p>
<p>Think about it....</p>
<p>Don't fuck yourself by being unreasonable, petty and foolish by being non-negotiable (word spreads quick...) but don't be a Kramer and be like..."$20? I'll take it...." (again, word spreads quick...)</p>
<p>Bottomline, think longterm - what you don't make off shares will probably make even in the future...</p>
<p>(More artists, execs hitting you up for new projects, etc. etc.)</p>
<p>Plus, you get to be down with a multi-plat album and earn youself those stripes.</p>
<p>Shoot, if it's like that - I'd give 50 a beat for FREE (....that's the fan voice in my head LMFAO)</p>

<p>If I remember correctly, unless you are a Timbo, Neptunes, Dre...someone established, you are getting bout 2k from 50 and I am not certain bout points but you def get credit which could springboard into mo work down the line plus more placements with G-Unit...2 stacks is great payday for me...I would be only 2/3's of the way from getting in on some of that Open Lab equip....lol...but the main point I believe trying to be made here is a few hundred now and credit can potentially turn into mo' work, mo dough down the line...it is an investment playa...</p>

<p>Are they asking for ownership of the copyrights to the beat too??? You never know what the song will be used for; movie, television, video game, etc... Considering negotiating terms within the contract that say you will not get any additional payments from their album sales, but you will&nbsp;get a share if it used on additional means of distribution outside of their album, i.e. the examples listed above. These artists are not in their prime but they are seasoned and aren't ignorant to the game. They be on this TV/MOVIE/GAME music licensing hustle just like us DP producers are LOL!</p>

<p>2 stacks is damn good money for damn near making a beat. Think about it, 50 records on his own with his own engineers.</p>
<p>So he's paying you 2K + Album credits for a beat pretty much.</p>

<p>Don't worry, I'm here now - lol!</p>
<p>First:&nbsp; Its cool that you have a placement opportunity wit some OGs of hip-hop.&nbsp; Its also cool that they wanna give u some money up front (because a lot of artists n labels don't even wanna do that).&nbsp; But, this isn't just your track you're dealin' wit... this is your business.&nbsp; For your business, u want to make the smart n right decisions.</p>
<p>Second:&nbsp; Ask the question, "What's this gonna be&nbsp;used for?"&nbsp; Let them answer it.&nbsp; If its for a mixtape, then u kno.&nbsp; It could be for their album or a compilation of some sort.&nbsp; It could be for a movie, or tv sho, or a number of other things (which they don't necessarily have to tell u - shadiness).&nbsp; This is where u have to make that important decision as to wha u would want to negotiate in terms of business (credits, royalties, etc.).</p>
<p>Third:&nbsp; You're due your producer credit - that's a mandatory thing in my book.&nbsp; No one gets credit for the work u did/they didn't do, no matter how much they try to "so call" buy u out for.&nbsp; U are also entitled to your royalties.&nbsp; If u had somethin' to do wit the writers, then u get writers.&nbsp; If u didn't, then u don't.&nbsp; The only royalties u would be entitled to at that point is publishin'.&nbsp; If they don't want to give up publishin' for u, then chances are they're plannin' on cakin' wit the money that's rightfully yours.&nbsp; Its not sayin' you're bein' greedy, but when u let people walk all over u by u not handlin' your business the way u should, then u open the door for&nbsp;everyone else to step on u like their door mat n use this business interaction as an example as to why u should let them step on u n threaten&nbsp;your business.&nbsp; You're bein' smart in settin' your publishin' percentage at a certain level so they can still make their money the way they planned, but also allow&nbsp;yourself to have what's rightfully yours.</p>
<p>Forth:&nbsp; Never ever sell your copyright.&nbsp; If u sold your copyright for pennies, u basically worked for free.&nbsp; U own your copyright.&nbsp; Should someone wish to buy it off of u, don't sell it for cheap.&nbsp; Those are your rights.&nbsp; That's like someone tellin' an American not to breathe n they listen.&nbsp; Its your right n your right only!&nbsp; Someone would have to pay u heaven for u to stop breathin'!</p>
<p>Fifth:&nbsp; I understand where u were comin' from in your essay Drape.&nbsp; But, u can't look at yourself as "I'm a nobody."&nbsp; You're a producer who's tryin' to get his name up.&nbsp; The more u think "I'm a producer wit some hot joints," the more people will look at u in that manner.&nbsp; That's not me sayin' to be cocky.&nbsp; Be humble of course.&nbsp; But, also understand you're tryin' to reach a certain status n thinkin' backwards isn't gonna help your situation.&nbsp; I recently sold a track to an independant artist for $1000.&nbsp; If things were different between her n myself, she wouldn't be payin' for it n I would only be concerned about gettin' money from the back end.&nbsp; But, things happened the way they did n it caused me to protect myself by doin' business wit her n her manager.&nbsp; Unfortunately, they have to pay because I need to protect myself n my business.&nbsp; I can't let someone take advantage of somn' that I'm practically givin' away.&nbsp; Respect for one another is definately somn'&nbsp;we want incorporated in any business we do.&nbsp; But, if we don't get that respect, then we really don't wanna do business wit people.&nbsp; If it comes down to it, we just have to take care of it.&nbsp; We won't go crazy wit it, but we will take care of it.</p>

<p>you can do two things:</p>
<p>1. negotiate for mechanicals and points.... If not then walk... (try negotiating not getting up front money in exchange for back end royalties)</p>
<p>2.take that L for that production credit and the couple of hundred dollars. (I would try my best not to go this route,but this might lead to other rewarding opportunities )</p>

<p>i see where your comin from, D.. but i'm not lookin at myself like a "nobody" ya digg. its just, i like to look at the big picture in this whole game.. if i walk because i didnt get paid as much as i "wanted" then i may be making one of the biggest mistakes of my life. like cheese was sayin, it would also be an honor for me to work with such an artist, and money would be the last thing i'd care about when i know a deal like that can give me a BIG name. i really liked what you said about the producer credit, i completely agree with that. the beat YOU made HAS TO HAVE YOUR NAME ON IT. with these scams goin on left and right in the music industry, no producer should ever sell their copyright, cause whoever buys it, can make it look like THEY made it with EASE.</p>
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<p>yo, i just wanna say, i'm not in this shit for the money.. i'm doin this for the love of the game.. and ive got BIG goals.. BIG FUCKIN GOALS. and i'm not gonna fuck it all up cause i got paid a couple buckz less for a deal with a big artist.. and crawl up in my little room huggin my keyboard sayin "my beats!! MINE.. ALLL MINE FUCK OFF EVERYBODY!!!! NO1 GETTIN THEIR HANDS ON THIS SHIT UNLESS THEY MAKE ME THE NEXT BILL GATES FUCK OUTTA HERE!!" na.. thats not me at all.. i understand&nbsp; that in this world, the "cheaper" it is, the "worse" it is.. in the BIG MAN's EYES YA DIGG.. so it's not wrong for a producer to present him/herself as bigger and better than they are, because the sharks are the ones who survive, so if your not a shark, you gotta act like one at least, and soon will learn to become one.. but i'm just sayin being cocky and greedy always turns out to fuck things up in the long run, i learned that in life, and i'll never make the same mistakes again..</p>

<p>Personally, i would try to negotiate for the upfront money and some type of royalties...but I think considering its only a&nbsp;few of hundred bucks, i would rather get royalties than the upfront money. I think it depends on a persons financial situation. Atleast with the less or no money upfront option, you still get credit for doing the track and you are protected back-end wise if the track blows up or is used in a TV/MOVIE/GAME market. SIDE NOTE...Maybe thats another definition for the phrase, "protect yourself on the BACK END" LOL! (NO HOMO)</p>

<p>LOVED THAT NO HOMO, VIC... (NO HOMO) LMAO.. na i wouldnt care about royalties until i can finally consider myself as a PART of the game.. when someone offers me a couple hundred beanz for a beat, and it's my first deal with them, i dont even believe i'd&nbsp;DESERVE royalties. and i think that if it had the POTENTIAL to be a track like what you stated (TV, MOVIE, GAME, etc.) then they would offer me more than a couple hundred..and if not, then i wouldnt wanna work with cheap cats like that for a long time anyway..</p>

aight, so its for an album and i would def get the production credit (also on the album are primo, maybe dilla, etc), no mechanicals and no publishing.. so if it gets used for licensing on tv or games i wouldnt get anything extra.. kinda sux, but ive decided to do it for the credit, especially for these artists.. so we'll see what happens! thanks for your input everyone

Sounds good. As long as your satisfied with the outcome then thats all that matters. I'ma check out the video you posted on my Facebook page when I get home since youtube is blocked at my job.

you deffinetly made the right move... PRIMO, DILLA??? you must be a talented motherfucker if you get put on a list with names like that, b. shit, i would do that for FREE and that's word to my keyboard, homie. dont worry aobut publishing and none of that extra shit.. and opp like this will NOT be ignored, and it will deffinetly help you out in the long run MUCH MUCH MORE than that extra bread would. good luck and keep grindin!!